AILSA CHANG, HOST:
Foreign aid spending is once again on the chopping block. The Senate is expected to vote this week on a request from the Trump administration to rescind about $8 billion. That is money that had been previously approved by Congress for global health programs and emergency food aid. And if Congress says, yeah, we're going to take back that money, well, then the United States Agency for International Development will be permanently dismantled. NPR global health correspondent Fatma Tanis joins us now. Hi, Fatma.
FATMA TANIS, BYLINE: Hi, Ailsa.
CHANG: OK, so just first explain how the administration made the decision to try to claw back $8 billion specifically.
TANIS: Well, the State Department says that an exhaustive review took place, where officials looked at about 10,000 programs in just a few weeks to see if there was waste and fraud. But I spoke with several officials at USAID and the State Department who said they had not actually seen any thorough review process whatsoever. They requested anonymity because they were not authorized to speak to the press. They said, at best, it was surface level, that administration staff searched for keywords in the description of thousands of foreign aid programs. And if they had the word gender or family planning or equality, it was terminated.
These officials told me that the dismantling of the agency happened so quickly, it was not possible for any actual investigation to happen in that chaos. Now, we requested comment from the State Department, and they said that each program was reviewed individually to ensure foreign aid works to, quote, "make America safer, stronger and more prosperous."
CHANG: OK. And this claim that USAID was this agency rife with waste and fraud, I mean, that was a claim that was made early on by the Trump administration and Elon Musk. Have they produced any evidence backing up that claim?
TANIS: So I spoke to Paul Martin about this. He was a former inspector general for USAID. Before that, he was the IG at NASA for many years. And he says all federal agencies have issues, but fraud, waste and abuse was not rampant at USAID.
PAUL MARTIN: As far as I know, never once has anybody in DOGE or in the new administration referred to the IG's office criminal allegations of fraud, waste or abuse. Frankly, the handful examples I'm aware of were just completely made up.
TANIS: He's talking about the allegation, for example, that President Trump made that USAID sent $100 million worth of condoms to the militant group Hamas in Gaza. Now, Trump officials have made several other allegations, but the USAID database and its website were deleted in the dismantling process, so it's difficult to fact-check all of their claims, but they haven't put forward any reports or evidence so far. And Martin and others point out that if the administration doesn't like a program, it can totally change it. But to use fraud as a justification to shut down USAID and cut foreign aid, there's no proof of that so far.
CHANG: And meanwhile, how is the rescission request playing out among senators who are going to be voting this week?
TANIS: Well, some Republican senators are buying the administration argument that funding USAID and other foreign aid programs is wasteful, but others are concerned about the cuts, particularly about $400 million of cuts to the global HIV/AIDS program PEPFAR. Today, Senate Majority Leader John Thune said that PEPFAR funds have been removed from the list of proposed cuts. Ultimately, the White House is keen on having this package passed, and the president has said that he would withdraw his support for any Republicans who did not approve it.
CHANG: That is NPR's Fatma Tanis. Thank you, Fatma.
TANIS: Thank you. Transcript provided by NPR, Copyright NPR.
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