SACHA PFEIFFER, HOST:
At President Trump's direction, the Justice Department is asking a court to release grand jury information related to the convicted sex offender. He was connected to many famous people before his death in prison. The Trump administration once encouraged conspiracy theories about an Epstein cover-up. Now some of Trump's core supporters say they're furious that his administration says it has no more relevant information. Photos, video and Trump's own statements show he was friends with Epstein many years ago.
STEVE INSKEEP, HOST:
The president has tried to quiet the criticism and even sued The Wall Street Journal over a story last week. The topic still dominated news shows on Sunday. Democratic Senator Amy Klobuchar was on CNN's "State Of The Union."
(SOUNDBITE OF TV SHOW, "STATE OF THE UNION")
AMY KLOBUCHAR: To me, as a former prosecutor, there are times when you release things for the good of the country. This is one of those times. And you don't go and say, oh, we're just going to see if a judge will let us do part of the evidence, part of the files that are over here in this grand jury proceeding after dissing judges forever.
PFEIFFER: Republican Congressman Tim Burchett of Tennessee is among those demanding more information about Epstein. He was also on CNN, and he praised the president for a first step.
(SOUNDBITE OF TV SHOW, "STATE OF THE UNION")
TIM BURCHETT: The American public's all pointing the finger, trying to play politics with this thing, and it's not accurate. I applaud the president for wanting to release those files. I think it's a good start. I think we - you know, they keep saying he talked about it repeatedly, and that's just not accurate.
INSKEEP: On Fox News Sunday, former Epstein attorney Alan Dershowitz said the grand jury transcripts alone are unlikely to satisfy Trump's supporters.
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ALAN DERSHOWITZ: Grand jury information is narrowly tailored by prosecutors only to provide sufficient evidence to result in an indictment.
PFEIFFER: The people closely following this include Sarah Isgur. She's a senior editor with The Dispatch and a former Justice Department spokesperson in the first Trump administration. Sarah, welcome back to the program.
SARAH ISGUR: Thanks for having me.
PFEIFFER: Sarah, we've heard from many corners that even if the grand jury transcripts are released, they may be unsatisfying. The transcripts aren't meant to be comprehensive. How much do you think it's likely that they could be revelatory in a way that satisfies either Trump's supporters or opponents?
ISGUR: Well, I think they're very unlikely to satisfy the people who want some bombshell here, right? I think if that existed, we would've already heard about it, potentially even leaks. But I also think it's very unlikely that anyone's going to see those grand jury materials. Criminal rule of procedure 6(e) has that they are under seal. Now, there are exceptions to that. The Department of Justice has obviously asked for them to be released. However, the exceptions are all related to official business, not simply, boy, it would be really nice for some people on the internet.
PFEIFFER: There's a former assistant U.S. attorney in Manhattan who has said that by calling for the release of this testimony, quote, "the president is trying to present himself as if he's doing something here, and it is really nothing." Is it nothing or is it something to ask for transcripts to be released?
ISGUR: Well, in this case, knowing how unlikely it is that they will be released, it's really a win-win for the administration. They get to say they asked, and then they get to blame someone else when they're not released. We've seen this over and over again, frankly, from administrations in both parties, where they use the judiciary as a foil to say, ah, we really wanted to do this thing through executive order or, in this case, grand jury transcripts, but those pesky judges stop us. Blame them.
PFEIFFER: There is a Republican representative in Kentucky, Thomas Massie. He's pushing for a procedural tactic called a discharge petition to force a House vote on releasing files related to Epstein. What do you make of that tactic and how effective it may be? More files than the grand jury testimony.
ISGUR: It puts Republicans in Congress in a terrible position, which Massie, of course, and Republican leadership know. Republicans in Congress, again and again, have borne the brunt of voters' disappointments with Trump - Trump Teflon Don. But Republicans often get blamed when Trump doesn't fulfill some promise. So here, you're really dividing the Republican caucus deciding whether they try to release something. Is there anything there? Trump doesn't want them to. It's a tough spot. And I think you have the White House making some behind-the-scenes calls as well.
PFEIFFER: This issue is making the rounds of cable TV. A lot of right-wing influencers have hopped on board in a way in which they're actually critical of the president and for, for many of them, the first time. I don't have a good gauge of whether the public thinks this is an important issue in a way that could turn President Trump's supporters against him. Do you have any gauge of that?
ISGUR: It's a good question because this is where polling, I think, can really let us down. People will answer the poll, but, like, how important is it to them? Is this actually changing votes? How many people is this a core issue for? And I think the answer to that is it - for very few people, is it a core issue? However, when you think about the sort of moment that the Biden administration couldn't recover from, it was the withdrawal from Afghanistan because a core part of Biden's message was competence. Well, it all seemed incompetent. Here, a core part of Trump's message is, you know, I do these things for my base. I always come through. Is this going to be the moment where they say, ah, you've betrayed us on a core piece of why you were elected?
PFEIFFER: So for Democrats who hope this as an opportunity to hurt Trump, do you think it actually poses that potential?
ISGUR: Yes. And we certainly see Democrats trying to do that and making the most of it. You know, it was Republicans, you know, trying to keep Epstein in the news. Now it's Democrats doing so. So they certainly see a political advantage here. Whether it will be the thing, unlikely. But whether it can be that first step on the path, maybe.
PFEIFFER: That's Sarah Isgur. She's a senior editor with The Dispatch. Thank you.
ISGUR: Thank you. Transcript provided by NPR, Copyright NPR.
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