A MARTÍNEZ, HOST:
Another state that's experienced a redistricting fight is California. Kevin Kiley represents California's 3rd Congressional District. He switched his party affiliation from Republican to independent after his district was redrawn in Democrats' favor. He's now running for California's 6th District. Joins us now.
Congressman, so you authored a bill that would ban states from redrawing congressional maps more than once every 10 years. Why do you think that's important?
KEVIN KILEY: Well, I introduced this last year when this whole redistricting war broke out. I was against these mid-decade gerrymanders in Texas and California. In every state where it's happened - you know, redistricting or gerrymandering is bad enough in and of itself, but when we're doing it more than once a decade - or maybe even every cycle is where this is headed - it's just going to polarize our politics even more.
MARTÍNEZ: Do you think the toothpaste could be out of the tube on this where it can't be put back?
KILEY: Well, some of it is, but the thing is, now you're going to see this new round of escalation, where we're talking about potentially a dozen, two dozen more states for the rest of this year and then for the 2028 cycle that are now talking about gerrymandering their maps. And so it might be too late for California, for example, but we can stop this very damaging redistricting war from going any further.
MARTÍNEZ: Why is it so damaging?
KILEY: Well, it's damaging for a number of reasons. You know, gerrymandering essentially elevates partisanship above everything else in our politics and it erodes further trust in politics. It causes the ground to be constantly shifting beneath voters' feet as they have this carousel of representatives that they can vote for as the district lines constantly change. It empowers politicians to choose their voters as opposed to voters choosing their politicians. And perhaps most perniciously, it's going to lead to even more extremes in representation and less of the sort of common sense middle ground that represents the vast majority of Americans.
MARTÍNEZ: So many people tell me that they have trouble keeping up with congressional races to go out and vote. I'm wondering if that is also a concern that people will just be so completely left behind that'd be like, eh, why even vote?
KILEY: Oh, totally. I mean, when your district is constantly shifting beneath your feet, maybe you voted for one person who you like, who thinks represents your community well, and then all of a sudden, your community is put into a totally different district or from the representatives perspective, a community that you've gotten to know through being reelected there several times, you know their issues, all of a sudden, it's combined elsewhere for no other reason than for one party or the other trying to squeeze out a couple additional seats for partisan advantage.
MARTÍNEZ: Now, you introduced a discharge petition last week, which would force a vote of your bill in the House. Has anyone else signed on?
KILEY: Well, I just introduced it. So we've had a number of people who have come out and said that they're going to sign. We've had people on the Republican side and the Democrat side who have come out and said they're going to sign. Really, we only need either the speaker or the minority leader. Either one will do to support the idea. If we can - if one of them will support it, we'd get the requisite number of signatures, or in the case of the speaker, if you brought the bill to the floor, we'd have a vote. The minority leader, Hakeem Jeffries, actually recently suggested that he supports a national prohibition on mid-decade redistricting. So that's when I decided to open up the discharge petition, that if that's his policy, if that's what he supports, then he can rally his members, and we'll get this thing to the floor for a vote. We can end this thing.
MARTÍNEZ: So have you heard from Hakeem Jeffries on this? Personally heard?
KILEY: I have not heard from him personally yet, no.
MARTÍNEZ: So, I mean, considering that people can say they support something, and then when it comes down to...
KILEY: (Laughter).
MARTÍNEZ: ...Voting...
KILEY: No, that never happens in politics.
MARTÍNEZ: Right, so I'm wondering, I mean, how hopeful are you that this will actually happen for you?
KILEY: I think that there are enough people on both sides in the House right now that are just so fed up with the whole thing that it's just a matter of the dam breaking. I think that if we can get some momentum on this, if the minority leader will support it, or frankly, even short of that, if we can get enough members who will come together on both sides, then I think we can get cooler heads to prevail 'cause the alternative is there's just no end in sight for this.
MARTÍNEZ: You mentioned that you're hoping the minority leader, Hakeem Jeffries, will get behind it. What are the chances, in your view, that Mike Johnson, the speaker of the House, might get behind it?
KILEY: Well, I fought the speaker on this for many months last year when this whole thing was getting underway, and I called upon him to bring it to the floor many times, both publicly and in personal conversations. And he didn't do so. That's his view. So now I've gone the route of the discharge petition. And given that Hakeem Jeffries has said he supports this idea, you know, I think this is our most viable path at this time.
MARTÍNEZ: Now, President Trump began this nationwide redistricting fight when he asked Texas to redraw its maps in favor of Republicans. As an independent, you still caucus with Republicans in the House. So what kinds of conversations are you having with your Republican colleagues about this?
KILEY: Well, they're all - I have yet to find someone who doesn't support the idea, you know, at least in principle. I've had people who are thanking me for what I'm doing here. And even, you know, folks, let's say in Texas, the Republicans there, who, in theory, their caucus stood to benefit, they hated the idea too because even if their seat wasn't being threatened in some partisan sense, their district had to change to accommodate, you know, the other changes where they were seeking advantage, and they didn't like their districts being upended. So I can tell you this is maybe the one thing that unites Democrats and Republicans in Congress these days is everyone hates this redistricting war.
MARTÍNEZ: Do you think switching from Republican to independent might get you an advantage to maybe keep you in Congress?
KILEY: I think it reflects the way I've always approached my job. I've always said I'm going to be an independent voice from my district. I had an opportunity to run in a safe seat in the newly gerrymandered map, but I thought we needed to chart a different course. And, you know, there's only been one independent elected to the House in the last 70 years. So it's not exactly, you know, the strategy you'd necessarily choose if your only goal was to get reelected, but I think that I have a strong path to reelection, and I think that it'll be a small step towards changing the hyper-partisan nature of politics in this country.
MARTÍNEZ: That's independent Congressman Kevin Kiley of California.
Congressman, thanks.
KILEY: You bet. Thanks for having me.
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