Democratic U.S. Senator for New Mexico, Ben Ray Lujan, had sharp words for Health and Human Services Secretary Robert F. Kennedy Jr. at a Senate Finance Committee Hearing Thursday morning.
The exchange between Lujan and Kennedy got heated at times, as did several exchanges with other senators. About halfway through Lujan’s turn at questioning Kennedy, they began talking over each other:
“You choose to know answers to questions with some colleagues,” Lujan began.
“I’m willing to give you the answer," Kennedy said, as Lujan continued on.
“Someone should have asked you, maybe President Trump should have asked you, are you a trustworthy person? And we should have waited for an answer then,” Lujan said.
“I don’t even know what you’re talking about,” Kennedy interrupted.
“Let’s move on,” Lujan said, without skipping a beat.
“You’re talking gibberish,” Kennedy said over Lujan.
“Mr. Secretary, let me speak slowly and clearly so that you can understand me through my New Mexico accent," Lujan replied.
“And then give me a chance to,” Kennedy said over Lujan.
“Does this help? Can you understand me?” lujan asked
“Yes,” Kennedy said.
“Appreciate that,” Lujan concluded.
Lujan spent a large part of his time questioning Kennedy about the role of David Geier at HHS. In an interview with KUNM shortly after the hearing, Lujan said Geier has been charged in Maryland for practicing medicine without a license, and is an ardent anti-vaccine advocate, who is now listed as a Senior Data Analyst on the HHS website.
“This person was brought on board to oversee what Secretary Kennedy has been calling a study to share with the American people the causes of autism,” Lujan said. “This guy was not a doctor, but he was doing all of these experiments and treatment of these young kids, including giving them these medications that were unproven, puberty blocking drugs from the perspective that this was going to cure autism as well.”
Several republican lawmakers also questioned Kennedy on the recent chaos at the CDC, his position and messaging on vaccines and his replacing the entirety of the Advisory Committee on Immunization Practices, or ACIP, which sets recommendations for vaccines nationally.
Republican Senator John Barrasso of Wyoming said “I support vaccines. I'm a doctor — vaccines work. Secretary Kennedy, in your confirmation hearings, you promised to uphold the highest standards for vaccines. Since then, I've grown deeply concerned”
Meanwhile, Sen. Thom Tillis (R-NC) said “I do also believe that some of your statements seem to contradict what you said in the prior hearing. You said you will do nothing that makes it difficult or discourages people from taking vaccines. There seem to be several reports that would seem to refute that.”
And Sen. Bill Cassidy (R-LA) read an excerpt from a constituent he said he knew, and described as a “fine conservative:” “My wife has stage four lung cancer. She is one of the people that COVID vaccine actually helps, thanks to the current mess at HHS, CVS is unable to get her vaccine.”
In an interview with KUNM shortly after the hearing, Senator Lujan gave his thoughts on the GOP response to Secretary Kennedy.
SEN. BEN RAY LUJAN: I appreciated the line of questioning that came from Dr Cassidy, senator from Louisiana. Secretary Kennedy chose to mislead Mr. Cassidy in one particular area that may get President Trump's attention. What Senator Cassidy asked, in addition to all of the other areas around vaccines, was if Secretary Kennedy thought President Trump deserved the Nobel Peace Prize for Operation Warp Speed, which is the initiative under President Trump's first term where the United States created the COVID vaccine. RFK said in return, ‘absolutely.’ And then Senator Cassidy said, ‘but you just told Senator Bennet that the COVID vaccine killed more people than COVID.’ And so it was one contradiction after another that came in that line of questioning. To follow up with that, one of my colleagues, a Republican colleague from North Carolina, said something along the lines of ‘your statement seemed to contradict what you said in the prior hearing.’ And then Senator Tillis went on to say, ‘look, I'm going to ask you these questions, but I don't want you to answer them now. I want you to submit them to this committee in writing, because I want to understand what your position is, because right now, they contradict each other.’ And so at least from two Republican colleagues today — I believe there were many concerns that were raised — but those two specifically (came) from a Republican colleague that I served with in Senate.
KUNM: Senator Kennedy obviously just re-stacked ACIP with new members. And in response, the state of New Mexico Department of Health issued a public health order promising to remove barriers to COVID vaccine access. And I'm just curious, you know,what do you think of states taking matters into their own hands?
SEN. BEN RAY LUJAN: Secretary Kennedy, during his nomination hearing, committed to every member on that committee and to the American people that he was not going to push his anti-vaccine positions on them, and that he would follow the science, that he would listen to the doctors and the medical professionals. Well, what's happened in the last month is Secretary Kennedy has essentially made announcements that are keeping access to COVID vaccines from the American people. What I mean by that is, as you may be aware, CVS recently announced that based on Secretary Kennedy's remarks, comments and positions that they would no longer be making the COVID vaccine available to everyone that would go into CVS, requiring insurance companies to pay for it. And so when Senator Elizabeth Warren of Massachusetts was asking these very specific questions — she asked Secretary Kennedy, ‘Will you be clear today that the vaccine is available for everyone?’ Initially he said, ‘Yes,’ and then he clarified, ‘No, no, no. People are gonna be able to get it, but some of them might have to pay for it as well,’ meaning that the policy has shifted. So again, Secretary Kennedy was caught in another lie. So with that being said, to your question, I applaud the state of New Mexico for working to make sure that medicine is going to be available to families, to individuals that need it most to keep us safe
KUNM: And then one last thing here, I think I have an idea of how you're going to answer, but one of the last things you said — you said,’I hope we do better. I want you to do better, but today was a failure for you.’ I'd like you to just give your comments on RFK Jr.’s performance today during the hearing.
LUJAN: Right before I shared that with Secretary Kennedy, I also told Secretary Kennedy, ‘the American people just want the truth.’ But Secretary Kennedy responded to me simply saying, ‘no, they don't.’
KUNM: During the hearing, the exchange happened as follows:
“People just want to know the truth,” Lujan said.
“I don't think so,” Kenndey replied.
“Mr. Secretary, you don't think so. Thank you,” Lujan said.
“I don't think so,” Kennedy repeated.
“I hope everyone recording that got that, because there explains the Secretary's tenure here,” Lujan said.
LUJAN: That alone is a dismal failure from someone that is serving in one of the highest roles on behalf of the American people in the United States of America. And one senator after another asked one or two questions where the secretary lied to them, denied that he said something when it was shown on a board his exact quote. Senator [Christine] Smith of Minnesota has a clip from an interview that Secretary Kennedy was giving to Fox News where he clearly answered the way that Tina Smith described it — senator from Minnesota — and Secretary Kennedy just lied and said he didn't. Anytime you show up and you start lying to a committee, while he was not sworn under oath today, he knows that he was sworn under oath during his confirmation hearing, and that it is illegal. It is not allowed to lie in these hearings. Those are the rules when you're invited. And so again, I just think it was a dismal failure, and I think that he failed the American people today, (and) embarrassed himself.
Support for this coverage comes from the W.K. Kellogg Foundation.
