David Sussillo did not have an auspicious beginning in life. He grew up in Albuquerque’s International District when it was commonly called the War Zone with parents who struggled with addiction, and spent years in the child welfare system. His new book, “Emergence: A Memoir of Boyhood, Computation, and the Mysteries of Mind,” traces how those early experiences led him to an unlikely career in neuroscience and AI research.
DAVID SUSSILLO: Both of my parents obviously were drug addicts during the ‘70s heroin epidemic. So, that meant I grew up in a lot of the bad parts of town. My parents were divorced by the time I was, I guess, five or six, so I ended up at the Albuquerque Christian Children's home that's on the West side of town.
KUNM: In the book, you describe moving through multiple homes and living more in these institutional settings. What did that environment feel like as a kid? And what do you wish people who have never had to experience the child welfare system understood about it?
SUSSILLO: Really, the way that I explain it is like, imagine you get lost at the mall when you're seven, and how that would feel, and then you don't find your parents. Okay, it's an hour later, and it's two hours later, or 24 hours later, you're still lost in the mall, you know the next thing, and then all the sudden you’re there for five years, right? So, at some point, sort of coping mechanisms kick in. And really, I think what people have a hard time understanding is what neglect really does to a kid and to a kid's developing mind over a very long period of time, and how that changes them.
KUNM: Looking back now as an adult, what do you think the child welfare system could do differently to better support kids growing up in these circumstances?
SUSSILLO: I can think of two things off the top of my head. Number one is the kid-to-parent ratio should be small. There should be a few kids to a set of house parents. The other thing I would say is it's not related to Albuquerque, but I ultimately moved to another, basically orphanage in Pennsylvania, and when I left Milton Hershey School to go to college, I was not prepared for what real life adulting was all about when you don't have anyone to talk to when, like, you know, I'm not calling up my parents on the weekends, right? So you can make bad decisions and mistakes very quickly and all of a sudden, like life is messed up and you didn't even know what happened. So, support for the early 20s, I think it just feels like a complete miss in the program right now.
KUNM: You went from a childhood marked with instability to earning a PhD from Columbia and working through cutting edge neuroscience and even AI research. How do you think your early experiences influenced your drive or the way you approach your work today?
SUSSILLO: So, it all goes back to video games. I'm 50, I was born in ‘75 so like 1980 I'm five, I'm six years old. And there's video games used to be everywhere, they were in the bowling alleys, in the supermarkets, in the movie theaters. And so like, even a poor kid like me could go like pretend they were playing one, or maybe scrounge up a quarter and go play. And that really became an escape for me, that then translated into an interest of technology and of computers, and that then translated into an interest in brains, and how do brains compute? So, it was really those things that were born out of escapism that turned into legitimate professional interests.
KUNM: And can you tell me a little bit more about Emergence? We've touched on a few things that have been influential in your life. But how did you weave together both your life growing up here in Albuquerque and your passion for technology?
SUSSILLO: Yeah, sure. So, “Emergence” is a memoir, and it tells that story from like someone who lived it right? And interwoven is the story of basically modern AI, because that happens to also be my story. So, I use the technology to sort of place what's going on in my life, because I was there for all of these things. And by the time you're done reading with this, you're like, did I just ugly cry through, like, Neuroscience 101? You know, because there's really two stories there. One is my personal story, which is dark at times, but ultimately, I think, a positive outcome. And then you learn about where AI is today, and you kind of it just all happens at once, hopefully.
KUNM: And for young people in New Mexico, or kids who are currently in the child welfare system in some way, who may feel like their circumstances limit their future, what would you want them to take away from your story?
SUSSILLO: There's a way out that you have to believe in yourself, that you have to have other people. My childhood led me to believe that I was the only one that could ever solve all my problems, and I got to say that's a mistake. Self-independence, you know, self-reliance is great, but I haven't done anything in my entire life of any value that did not involve long and prolonged interactions with other people. And so know your people. Find mentors. Believe in yourself.
This coverage is supported by the W.K. Kellogg Foundation and KUNM listeners like you.
