AILSA CHANG, HOST:
The blue tsunami that swept Democrats into control of both houses of Congress will give the party new power to check President Trump for the last two years of his term. So what should the priorities of Democrats be, and how much can they expect to actually accomplish? We're going to put those questions to Democrat Rahm Emanuel now. He served as Chicago's mayor, a congressional representative and chief of staff to President Obama. Welcome.
RAHM EMANUEL: Thank you. How are you?
CHANG: Very good. I wanted to ask you about something that you said last night during NPR's Special Coverage of election night. You told my co-host Scott Detrow that voters have given Democrats a, quote, "second look" that they haven't gotten in the past.
EMANUEL: That's right.
CHANG: Well, now that Democrats have won that second look, what is the Day 1 agenda?
EMANUEL: Well, one is you have to look at this. This was a repudiation of the Republicans, not a vindication of us. We have a second look. We have a broad, what I call, electoral coalition. Our goal and mission now is to make it a governing coalition, and that means delivering change. What does that look like?
CHANG: Yeah.
EMANUEL: One, comprehensive lobbying reform for all three branches of government. Power wash the place - a ban on all stock trading, a ban on all participation in prediction markets, a mandatory retirement or term limits, a mandatory blind trust and then the Kushner rule, which is you can't take foreign investments and money while you're in government and for two years afterwards. Two, while prices are up, what hasn't gone up? The minimum wage in 20 years.
CHANG: Yeah.
EMANUEL: Raise the minimum wage. And then third and finally - if not third - there's two other things (ph) - restrict and repeal many of the tariffs. And then, fourth, restore some of the healthcare cuts that were done on Medicaid and on the ACA exchange...
CHANG: OK.
EMANUEL: ...So people get healthcare in America.
CHANG: OK, you've just cited a number of ideas that Democrats can tackle over the next two years. But the question on a lot of people's minds is, can Democrats speak with a more unified voice?
EMANUEL: (Laughter).
CHANG: Both moderate and progressive Democrats were elected last night.
EMANUEL: Sure.
CHANG: You have been critical of progressive politics, issues that center on identity. Can the progressives and the moderates within the Democratic caucuses work together, you think?
EMANUEL: So two things. One is, I have been critical because in our successful efforts, we have worked to find things like economic security, education, things that bring people together. Identity politics actually divide people and break them off rather than finding unifying economic values and social values that unite. Now I do that having worked with both President Obama and President Clinton. Their success wasn't figuring out how to divide the country, but it was actually how to unite the country. You know, if you do identity politics, the other side gets to do identity politics.
CHANG: Sure.
EMANUEL: And there's more identity there, so it's a bad strategy and...
CHANG: But do you think Hakeem Jeffries...
EMANUEL: ...Bad for the country.
CHANG: Do you think Hakeem Jeffries, presumably, potentially the next speaker of the House, do you think he can effectively bridge the fault lines that are running through the Democratic caucus right now in the House? I mean, 'cause...
EMANUEL: Yeah.
CHANG: ...Speaker Pelosi, I mean, she managed to navigate a lot of complicated fissures in her party back then, but...
EMANUEL: I have - yes, I - so the short answer is yes, because he has a - the count's still going on, but he has a significant majority where no one element can hold him hostage. What has happened to the Republican speakers of late is that they were held hostage by three members. When you have 200, call it, I'll just, for this show, 45 or more, you can tell nine members, make sure the door doesn't hit you on the way out. They can't hold the team hostage. That gives you massive leverage.
CHANG: So the math is on Jeffries' side, is what you're saying, the math inside (inaudible).
EMANUEL: No doubt about it. No doubt about it. Now, the other thing I used to say, you know, look, as a - I (laughter) - I'm saying a joke, and then I realize I'm on NPR, so I better not say it.
CHANG: (Laughter).
EMANUEL: I used to (inaudible) Nancy Pelosi.
CHANG: Go ahead.
EMANUEL: Mo Udall had this great line, a former caucus chair. And I was - when we were trying to count votes, the speaker and I, I said, remember what Mo Udall used to say, and she would look up. I said, what's the difference between a cactus and a caucus? In a cactus, the pricks are on the outside.
CHANG: (Laughter).
EMANUEL: So OK? That was Mo Udall, not me. Nancy used to laugh, also. But, look, you got to basically - I'll give you an example. Let's just tease this out. You're going to have, appropriately, hearings about all the corruption. But the hearings aren't going to change. You have a choice. If you do impeachment, the coalition that elected you are going to say, eh, it's just more of the same. You do an ethics bill, they're going to say, that's a change I voted for. You got to think about the Kansas senator. You got to think about Nancy Lacore in the Charleston, South Carolina, district that flipped that district. You got to think about Sean McCann, who just won by 300 votes in western Michigan.
CHANG: OK. Wait, let me make sure I understand what you are saying, because there are a lot of Democrats...
EMANUEL: I was speaking in English.
(LAUGHTER)
CHANG: Let me make sure that I understand what you're saying. A lot of Democrats are actually quite eager in the House...
EMANUEL: Yeah.
CHANG: ...To start investigations. In fact, the incoming House oversight chair, Robert Garcia...
EMANUEL: I'm for that.
CHANG: ...Posted on social media last night, lawyer up. I'm assuming he's directing that message to Republicans. Do you worry - is - what you're saying is that you are concerned Democrats could put too much focus on investigating the Trump administration...
EMANUEL: No, that's not what I said. So let me...
CHANG: ...And their allies and not delivering policies...
EMANUEL: No, no, no.
CHANG: ...That voters actually want?
EMANUEL: I'll slow down. I'm all for the hearings. Follow the money.
CHANG: OK.
EMANUEL: But you better - the hearings are not the end in themselves. They're a means towards lobbying and ethics reform. If you don't finish it, you'll have fallen short. You need...
CHANG: Do you think Democrats should try to impeach President Trump a third time?
EMANUEL: As I said, lobbying and ethics reform, no. Let me, just by way of reference - in 2007, led the effort in '06 to make Nancy speaker, take the majority. Senator Obama, John McCain, Russ Feingold, and in the House, myself, Marty Meehan and Chris Shays, we passed the last major lobbying and ethics reform 20 years ago. Use the majority and then what happens a year later? President Obama gets elected. OK, use the majority to make real change, make the coalition that elected that change, be a governing coalition and deliver.
CHANG: What I hear you saying is, go ahead, investigate away, but make sure that you get things done as well.
EMANUEL: Here's...
CHANG: Let me ask you one more thing 'cause I know you only have a few minutes with us. Given that you feel that way, how much of a risk do you think there is that voters will hold Democrats responsible in 2028 if the economy doesn't turn around?
EMANUEL: Well, in that case, they mainly hold the president, historically. Our job is to deliver change with speed. And I mean that with speed. As I always like to say, the first eight letters of progressive is progress, not perfection. Raise the minimum wage, restrict the tariffs, pass lobbying and ethics reform bill, and then the people that elected you said, you know what? You're different. You're not more of the same. You're actual change. This was a change election, a repudiation. Now we have to turn in - not spike the ball on the 20 yard line, but actually deliver the touchdown that the American people want.
CHANG: Well, you mentioned the presidential aspect of the election in 2028. There's no secret that you are personally exploring a run for president. Do last night's results push your decision one way or the other?
EMANUEL: No.
CHANG: What is your decision?
EMANUEL: To get off this interview.
(LAUGHTER)
CHANG: Fair enough. It's been lovely to talk to you. Rahm Emanuel - he's held a number of Democratic leadership positions, including Mayor of Chicago and White House Chief of Staff. Thank you so much.
EMANUEL: Thank you.
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