Among the many choices New Mexicans will make on this year’s ballot, one of the more high profile races is for one of the state’s two U.S. Senate seats. Democratic incumbent Senator Ben Ray Luján is running for reelection against Republican challenger Larry Marker. Lujan was born in Nambe just north of Santa Fe in 1972. His father was a prominent New Mexico State Representative for almost 40 years who served as Speaker of the House. Lujan himself got into politics in 2004 when he was elected to the Public Regulation Commission. He also served as a U.S. Representative for the 3rd district for 12 years before being elected to the Senate in 2021. KUNM’s Daniel Montaño sat down with Luján to talk about his priorities going forward if reelected, and what he hopes to get done with another six years in the Senate.
This transcript has been edited for clarity.
KUNM:You've been in the Senate now since 2021. You are now asking New Mexicans for another term. What do you believe another six years is going to bring? What do you want to accomplish that you haven't accomplished yet?
U.S. SENATOR BEN RAY LUJÁN: Well, Daniel, it's good to be with you. Thanks for having me. Look, right now, all across New Mexico, people are having a heck of a time just trying to hang on. And what I mean by that is, I was recently talking to some farmers and ranchers, and they've never seen diesel over $6, and now it's pushing like $6.50, $6.60, depending on what part of the state people are in. That means that some small family farms that they might be selling off, and then when diesel's that high, the cost of food is even higher. In addition to all the bad policies coming from Donald Trump around tariffs and things of that nature, making everything more expensive, and then to boot, when Donald Trump and Republicans passed HR one or Senate Bill one, it was all around the big beautiful bill. Then, if it wasn't enough for Donald Trump to be making decisions that are increasing costs on the cost of fuel and food, then they made a decision that's making health care more expensive for everyone as well. They eliminated every federal dollar to Medicaid. They eliminated premium tax credits for the Affordable Care Act, and just because someone in New Mexico may not benefit from one of those programs specifically, when that happens, it increases costs on everyone, and it makes things more expensive. In addition to that, it's threatening the closure of rural healthcare facilities as well. So, people are just trying to figure out what's going on here, and who's going to do something about lowering those costs, and that's where a big responsibility is going to come — not just from myself, but from fellow colleagues. If we're given the opportunity over the next Congress into the next few years — not for six years — this has to happen soon, to be able to bring back programs that are going to make healthcare more affordable for folks to ensure that those of us that live in rural parts of America, if we get sick like I did four years ago and survived a stroke, time's not on your side. You need to be able to get to a doctor and see a facility, get a scan, whatever may be. It's the difference between life and death, and that's what's happened to a lot of folks. In addition to that, I have the honor of being one of four kids helping to care for my mom now, as well, and I'm working on federal legislation that will provide more support to families like mine. And it's more often than not in New Mexico, where families are taking care of loved ones, whether it's a parent or a grandparent or a sibling or a child, and there's nothing out there for them, so I've been working on a few policies and ideas for a few years now. But now I'm leading that effort as well. So those are just a few examples of policies that I hope to be able to get passed, get to the president for signature, that will provide relief and support for families here in New Mexico. And by the way, folks across the country will benefit from some of these policies as well,
KUNM: You know, you brought up a couple things there I'm going to jump ahead in my questions now because of. You're going to be visiting New Mexico Pinon Coffee tomorrow to talk about tariffs on coffee imports. What do you think the Trump administration is getting wrong about tariffs, and what would you like to see happen instead?
LUJÁN: Look, when tariffs are used in policy, they're identified for very specific reasons, looking at one country or another with very targeted goals. What President Trump has been doing is he's been just saying across the board, “I don't like what someone from some other part of the world said about me,” so he slaps them with a 50% tariff or a 60% tariff, and he does not relent. Even though many of my Republican colleagues have also said “you need to back off of this,” and it's in the midst of everything going on, especially in many parts of the country that border Canada as well. So, what we're seeing right now is President Trump's arbitrary decisions to throw tariffs across the border at folks, is making everything more expensive. The reason that I'm going to visit with Piñon Coffee is a lot of folks across New Mexico drink coffee, and they have their favorite places that they go pick up a cup. And when you're talking to all of these different entrepreneurs across New Mexico, and especially with coffee, you learn that the coffee beans are more expensive. You learn that the coffee cups are more expensive. You learn that the stirrer rods are more expensive. You're learning that the machines, if something happens to them, they can't even get a replacement because they're bottlenecked somewhere, and if they can get it, that's more expensive as well. And that's why people are just paying more. Folks understand when they're traveling day to day (to) get to work, and they're trying to get that. And all of a sudden, it's costing 50% more, 60% more, whatever it is. They're feeling it, and so that's the idea here: to go and talk to a local small business. “What's happening to you? Help me understand what these impacts are to you,” so that policies can get better. There needs to be a thoughtful way to bring people together, Democrats and Republicans, and folks that work for this president, to say, “hey, this is being done incorrectly. It's hurting families across New Mexico.” And then, by the way, when President Trump tells the American people that people across America are not paying for these tariffs, it's not true. President Trump is misleading everybody, and where I grew up, it's called a lie. You know, it's not about misleading folks when he says that the home countries are paying for these tariffs, they're not. It's people here in New Mexico and people across America. That's what's happening here. So that's the point of this conversation.
KUNM: You brought something up I think is integral right now. You're running at a time when Washington is deeply divided. What do you think New Mexicans should expect from their senator when their interests conflict with the priorities of their own party or the White House.
LUJÁN: Look, I've been clear here, Daniel, that I'll work with anyone when it comes to making a positive difference for New Mexico. But if you're going to bully our state, we're not going to get along, and we're going to square up here. You know, one of those examples is when President Trump threatened to change the name of our state and say that New Mexico is no longer going to be New Mexico, that he's going to start calling it New America and start changing the name. I've not met anyone in New Mexico that thinks that's a good idea. That's an example where we line up, where there's some differences. Look, I'm always willing to listen and learn, see what I got wrong, and see how we can do it better. But when it comes to making lives better in New Mexico, when it comes to lowering the cost of food, lowering the cost of fuel, ensuring that people can buy a house or rent or just be able to live, we all have the same values and same goals. We might just have a different approach to get there as well. And I've learned that, and I'm willing to work with anyone and everyone when it comes to that, that's why I'm so proud to pass bipartisan legislation that has created job opportunities here in New Mexico, like cleaning up the abandoned oil and gas wells and orphan wells that were out there as well. Working with Republicans, passing legislation to make sure that more families that live downwind of nuclear testing or uranium mine workers that worked after 1971, working with a Republican colleague to get this legislation adopted and passed, passing legislation that will require auto manufacturers in America to have technology and vehicles to prevent as many crashes that result from drunk driving or impaired crashes as well. I did that all in a bipartisan way, and so yeah, we're going to work together. We're going to have some disagreements along the way, but when it comes to making lives better in New Mexico, everyone should be open to listening and learning, admit where they got things wrong, and then try to make things better as well.
KUNM: You've mentioned a lot of things that you've gotten done so far, but when you look back at your time in the Senate, first off, what do you consider your most significant accomplishment for New Mexico? And then, what's the biggest thing that you wish you had been able to get done, but you haven't yet?
LUJÁN: Well, there are some major pieces of legislation that I've been working on from the time that I was in the U.S. House and now honored to be in the U.S. Senate as well, a few of them I just mentioned. I made a commitment, and I met with some families when I was first elected to the House about one of the injustices that was created back in the 1990s that hurt so many families in New Mexico, and that injustice goes back to the 1950s, and that was so many families lived downwind of where there was nuclear testing, in the 1990s, one of my colleagues from Utah, Orrin Hatch, saw fit to pass something called theRadiation Exposure Compensation Act. But when he did it, New Mexico, which is where the first test took place to be able to test a nuclear weapon. It happened in Tularosa, New Mexico. Every county of New Mexico was left out of this designation. When I went back and chatted with others as to why New Mexico was left out — it was all politics. That's all that it was. New Mexico was just arbitrarily left out. And then the uranium mine workers. How is it that a policy that was supposed to provide support to uranium mine workers only covered those that worked through 1971, when everyone knew that the work took much longer than that, they were just left out. Again, politics-that's what got in the way. So, I got to work on this, and most observers said policy to expand to downwind counties in America and be able to cover workers, uranium mine workers that worked after '71, would never happen. I was very proud to get legislation passed out of the House when I was there, but it failed in the Senate. Now that I was in the Senate, I was able to get a piece of legislation adopted once before, but now that we got this one done, it actually went to the president for signature and provides support for families. These are folks across New Mexico working hard day in and day out. They don't have government affairs folks or lobbyists. These are just people just trying to live. I'm very proud that we got that done as well. Piece of legislation that I regret that we were not able to get adopted just yet is the simple expansion of coverage and care to families in New Mexico caring for loved ones that have maybe dementia or Alzheimer's or some other chronic disease that requires you to take care of a loved one, especially when their wishes are, I want to be taken care of at home, and there's nothing involved in that person's life where maybe they need to go get other medical supports. They want to be taken care of at home, and everything that we've learned is that quality of life is better when you're able to be taken care of at home. People are happier. But what happens if a family doesn't have financial means to do that? There needs to be help for them. So, I'm not happy that we've not gotten this one done, but I'm determined and committed to be able to work on this and grow more and more support. And we already have a coalition of several colleagues who are also caretakers for loved ones that are caring for parents as well, while they also serve in the U.S. Senate, and I certainly hope that we can find a strong bipartisan family in the United States Senate that can get this done and provide relief to families at home.
KUNM: Another huge issue that you've been talking about a lot recently is both AI and data centers. You've raised concerns about large data centers shifting costs onto residential and small business utility customers. What policy do you think Congress should adopt to make sure that those costs are borne by the companies driving the additional demand?
LUJÁN: Well, Daniel, first off, these companies that are proposing to build data centers are the wealthiest companies in America. They have financial means, and so I've been abundantly clear in some very specific areas as it pertains to New Mexico and these proposed data centers. One, there was a time when these centers were talking about how they would need water to cool these data centers because of the amount of heat that all their systems create. One, the technology has changed. They don't need to be using water first off. And number two, if they're going to use water — it's for drinking. Drinking water in New Mexico should be for drinking. Agricultural water in New Mexico should be for agricultural purposes. This notion of industries coming in and buying off water and taking it away from people, and taking it away from our farmers and ranchers, is absolutely ridiculous, and I've been clear about that. As it pertains to policy: look. Recently, one of my colleagues from Ohio offered a piece of legislation where he suggested that it would protect ratepayers. One, as a former utility commissioner, I know that the federal government does not set rates as it pertains to utilities for ratepayers on the retail side here in New Mexico. What his legislation was doing was suggesting that someone should consider looking into, and you can add all the other words. It did not require anything, and so I got to work recently. A few of my colleagues, including my colleague from New Mexico signed on to this, to the National Association of Regulatory Utility Commissioners, which are essentially the PRC commissioners all across America, who have the authority and policy, something called a rate writer, to say this company, this proposed AI data center, is not going to make any ratepayer pay an additional penny for anything, whether it's creating more electrons, creating more electricity, or interconnecting to the grid, or any of that, they need to be paying for this themselves. And these companies, by the way, should be coming into communities and being able to, for example, look at the brackish water that maybe is in some of the parts of the state and say, “how are we going to clean that up and bring beneficial use to the people of New Mexico. How are we going to make things better for people at home?” And I'm just not seeing anyone say any of that stuff. So, we should start there as well. As it pertains to the AI that these data centers are going to be creating as well. There needs to be guardrails. I've proposed several pieces of legislation as early as three years ago, and recently we've been working on a few others as well to be able to put guardrails on what this stuff is, what it's not, how to keep it safe in America. And in the last few months, we now are hearing from the CEOs that founded these companies saying how dangerous these systems could be to the health of people all across America and around the world. I mean, man, something needs to be done, and it needs to be done soon. And so, I have a disagreement with President Donald Trump when he says to the Congress, Democrats and Republicans, “you don't need more rules; you just need a smart president,” and he's going to keep people safe. And he said he was going to create some body to be able to look after folks. I mean, come on, man, we need to be doing things better in the United States, and especially when it comes to this technology, we need to get things straight and get it right. And Congress needs to get to work. This has been one of the failures where Congress has let people down here in New Mexico and across America with putting those guardrails in place.
KUNM: Speaking of, what is one AI-related policy you think is most important and could materially affect New Mexicans over these next few years?
LUJÁN: One piece of policy that I have proposed, and I'm working with different colleagues on right now, is some of the safeguards and parameters, guardrails, if you will, of how these systems can work. Recently, we learned that here in New Mexico there was an agent, which is — it's created out of the AI. So, when we talk about agents and models, those are the tools that are used that people work on, or these agents, or the actual technology, the name of the technology that goes out and looks for things or does things. Some people have subscriptions to some of these AI companies, and with that, they get an agent, and then they're benefiting from a model that's been created. Well, we've learned recently that there are rogue agents that have been going after different entities. Recently, in New Mexico, at the University of New Mexico Health Sciences, there were some rogue agents that tried breaking in, arguably to get some information, to steal data, to steal research, whatever it was. It was not for the good. We have now learned that there needs to be guardrails and parameters in which these models and agents are able to work or not work, and not be able to steal people's information, go into an investor-owned utility, an electricity company, or a water company, or a hospital, and take over their systems as well. So that's one of the areas where I've offered legislation, working with others, that I believe it would be received in a positive way to provide more guardrails and safeguards to these rogue models and agents from what they can or they can't do, and ensuring that people are going to be as safe as possible. The European nations have been looking into doing some of this work. The United States has failed, but some of the parameters that have been created have been created right here in New Mexico and Los Alamos, a national laboratory, and at the very least, that should be the ground of the kind of parameters, guardrails, safeguards that should be implemented, the work that I've been doing not only looks at the Department of Energy and NSA National Laboratories, but also the Academies of Science, which are arguably some of the most thoughtful leaders in building these parameters as well. And that's why I've been working with them as well, and why we have more colleagues across the country that have signed on to some of these ideas.
KUNM: Speaking of that, if — provided, we can get guardrails in place for what AI agents are allowed to do, or if we can get restrictions that ensure that electricity costs aren't unfairly burdened onto customers, regular New Mexicans, do you think that the AI and data center industry should be allowed to grow if we can get those in place, or do you have reservations about those industries in general?
LUJÁN: I have questions and reservations as to most people here in New Mexico as well, and in most parts of America where some of these centers have been built, some of these reservations come from the very simple notion that where these centers were built, that water pressure dropped in communities that depend on water systems as well, and they're worried if their water is going to be available to them down the road. In addition to that, as we've learned more about these rogue agents and models and breaking into systems, and now a whistleblower that has left OpenAI and said that he's very concerned about human health and what these things could do down the road as well. Yeah, absolutely. There's a lot of questions in each and every one of these areas, and there needs to be community involvement from step one when decisions are being made by local governments in New Mexico or in America, namely county commissions or city governments. They're the closest to the people here at home. They need to be involved with public comment, information, truth sharing, transparency, as opposed to trying to sneak some development through the dark of night and getting something done. That's not the right way to do anything. So there needs to be more involvement from people from every step and at every level as well. But yeah, I have questions and I have reservations as well.
KUNM: So now I've got the unpopular opinion question. Is there anything, any issue, where you hold a position that you think people who normally agree with you might disagree with you on — anything that you believe that your position is the right one, but maybe that's not the popular position?
LUJÁN: The positions that I've taken here as a United States senator and a U.S. House member representing people in New Mexico have been with them in mind. That's the way that I approach service as well, and so constituents sometimes will come up and chat with me and say, "Well, they don't agree here or there,” whatever it may be, and we chat. And you do your best to represent the people of New Mexico. The one thing that I'll say as well is, when I take a vote, I also think it's important that we have town halls, that you make yourself available to the community. One of the lessons that my late father shared with me as well. Is behind every vote is a person, and you also have to explain that vote to the people, whether they agree with you or they don't agree with you as well. You need to explain why you took that vote and why you took that action as well, and that's a responsibility that I've taken seriously with the number of town halls that I've been proud to be a part of, to hold, and to engage with voters as well. Also, conversations at the grocery store, you know, if you're over that way and you're picking up something and you run into a constituent, it's time to chat. And sometimes that turns into a round table or a little bit larger of a gathering. But you need to sit down and visit, and you sit down and learn. That's the responsibility with serving as a U.S. senator for people here at home.
KUNM: Your Republican opponent, Larry Marker, entered this race through an unusual means. He's a write-in primary candidate. What do you understand to be the central argument that he's making to New Mexican voters, and where do you think you disagree most fundamentally with him?
LUJÁN: I haven't heard much from my opponent. There have been a few things written about him. It's been abundantly clear that he supports President Trump's policies and is tied to President Trump's policies. President Trump's very unpopular here in New Mexico. I think President Trump's policies have made us sicker. They've made us poor in New Mexico as well, and so in every one of those areas, if my opponent is suggesting that President Trump's policies around tariffs are not wrong, well, I disagree with him there. If my opponent is suggesting that what President Trump is doing with the war in Iran that is making diesel costs, fertilizer costs, food more expensive for us in New Mexico, a war that President Trump promised would be six days — we're now over 200 days out that way as well — I disagree with him as well. So, I'm not too familiar with my opponent in those areas, other than him lifting up this president. And maybe it was before there was a general — you know, I think that some people are trying to put some distance in now because they're seeing the realities of how dangerous President Trump's policies have been to the people of New Mexico in their daily lives.
KUNM: So, you've had a pretty varied political career. You've moved your way up, and I'm sure that you've taken lessons every time that you've made one of those moves, what do you think is the biggest lesson that you've gotten over these last six years in the Senate that, if you do win, you would take with you into your next term?
LUJÁN: The importance of speaking up for the people that you represent. You know that experience was firsthand with all of the debates around the Radiation Exposure Compensation Act, and the way that I was able to work with some of my Republican colleagues, Mike Crapo out of Idaho, Josh Hawley out of Missouri, as two examples, was lifting up the stories of people of New Mexico and ensuring that their voices were heard, inviting them to our nation's capital. Some of the advocacy organizations would travel to D.C. as well, ensuring that their voices were heard in hearings. But then, when you're in those rooms negotiating on policy, you need to speak up. And I've learned the importance and the power of ensuring that you speak up, especially when people are being treated wrong, to make sure that you're going to be able to protect them and lift them up as well. It's critically important. And if I'm honored to continue to serve in the U.S. Senate. That's something that I will take with me everywhere that I go, whether it's in a room negotiating a piece of legislation, or I find myself with a colleague or someone from the administration in an elevator. They're going to hear about what needs to be done for the people here at home.
KUNM: So, for you know, New Mexicans got busy lives. They're trying to make ends meet. Not everybody can pay attention all the time. So, for somebody listening who hasn't been paying much attention to this race yet, what do you think is the most important issue that New Mexico voters should have in their minds when they choose between you and Larry Marker?
LUJÁN: Well, look, people across New Mexico, when they go get some food, they know how much that's costing them now than from a year ago or a year and a half ago. Right now, when they're putting fuel into their vehicle, whether it's unleaded or diesel, they see how much more expensive this is, or what's happening. When folks across New Mexico find themselves in need of being able to go to a doctor, or they get those insurance bills coming in, and they see that they're getting more and more expensive, or maybe that that rural healthcare clinic in their community has announced that they may close because of decisions made by President Trump and my Republican colleagues. Keep that in mind as we're going forward. The difference between me and my opponent is I'm going to do something about standing up to that nonsense. And if we're fortunate to not just — if I'm able to be elected back to the U.S. Senate, but if we get the majorities back in the House and the Senate, then we're able to right these wrongs as well. My opponent's another vote for Donald Trump. We need some folks that are willing to stand up when this president is doing things that are bad for folks. How do we work together? And that's what I would say as we go into this. One of the areas — you know, you asked a question about where my opponent and I disagree. He tries to criticize every time there's a conversation around Medicaid funding. Well, it was under a Republican governor, Susana Martinez, when I was in the House of Representatives (that) we passed the Affordable Care Act. Where she did the right thing in embracing Medicaid expansion for New Mexico. It took us from one of the most uninsured states to one of the most insured states when it came to health care, and it provided certainty for families in the community. When I talk about the importance of Medicaid or ending hunger with programs like Supplemental Nutrition Assistance Program, my opponent says, "Oh, well, that's what's wrong with the government and with folks.” Baloney, man! You need to help people. We need to support people. There's got to be a way to lift people up and provide that floor of support for everyone to do better. So yeah, keep that in mind as we're going to the polls. I'm also proud to be born and raised in this beautiful state. I went to Head Start in the community where I still live on that small farm that I call home. I'm one of only two U.S. Senators who went to Head Start. You know, some of my colleagues have done well in their lives and all the rest. But you know, folks that go to the United States Senate or the presidency or wherever, and they go over there to get rich. I mean, come on, that's garbage. You need to help people here at home, and that's something that I'm proud that I've lived by and I continue to be that person today. Graduated from Mexico Highlands University, small little D2 school here. Proud graduate of Pojoaque High School, so born and raised here, educated here. I'm New Mexico through and through. This is where I’ll, God willing, have the last breath that I take as well. This is home to me, and everything I do is for the people of New Mexico. It's who I am. So just please keep that in mind as we're making decisions. Go to the polls, and, by the way, no matter who you're voting for, just please go out and vote. You know, we want everyone also exercising their right to vote as well and protecting that sacred right that we have here in New Mexico. So, you know, if I don't have your support, I hope and I pray I earn it. But no matter who you're voting for, please get out there and vote.
KUNM: We're coming up close to our time here, but I wanted to give you time to highlight anything in particular that you think is important, or maybe something that we haven't talked about here today. Yeah, just give you the mic and free reign.
LUJÁN: You know, Daniel, I guess just my appreciation of the people of New Mexico, as you know, even when times are tough, people here look out for each other, and I appreciate the example that I see from people every day. The generosity that comes from families that give of themselves to someone else. Sometimes we'll never read about it, or we may never even witness it, but it's something that happens in all of our small towns, in all of our small communities, and our big cities as well. And I just want to thank people for doing that, because when someone can't eat, and food is as expensive as it is, and I'm hearing now that we have longer lines at food banks than even during COVID, if you can believe that, sir, and the generosity of families here at home to make sure someone's going to be able to get that meal or get that help, or if someone needs some help with maybe fixing that roof or taking care of someone that might be sick. Just thank you for what you do. We're in this together. We have the same values. We have the same goals here. We just might have different approaches to get there, but let's lean on each other and hold each other accountable to be able to get things done and in the end make things better for people here in New Mexico. That's what this is all about.
Support for this coverage comes from the W.K. Kellogg foundation.
